Warp Five 270: A Sticky Situation

ChrisWelcome, Boomers, to another episode of Warp Five, our dedicated Star Trek Enterprise podcast. I'm Christopher Jones, and with me, as he always is, is my esteemed co-host, Matthew Rushing. And Matthew, is that gel you have in your hair today? It looks kind of like alien goo.

MatthewYes, yes it is, Chris. You know, that is the Xindi Sassoon that you're seeing. It's a wonderful product. Everybody should be using it, if you want your hair to look fabulous.

ChrisYeah, that's what the Bajoran militia uses in their hair, right? Yeah, I thought so.

MatthewOh, yeah. Yep, yep. MACOs love it.

ChrisMACOs too, yeah. I think actually the MACOs were probably the inspiration for the Bajoran militia later on in the timeline. They were reviewing missions as they prepared to, you know, apply for Federation membership and all that.

But yes, everyone, we are going to continue our 20th anniversary rewatch of Enterprise today with the 17th episode of season 3. It's "Hatchery," and here is a quick rundown of the story.

As the Enterprise pushes toward Azati Prime, Archer leads an away team to a derelict Xindi-Insectoid vessel and discovers hundreds of gestating eggs, with life support failing. While examining the hatchery, a tendril suddenly sprays him with goo. Phlox initially dismisses it as a mild neurotoxin, but Archer grows increasingly obsessive about saving the hatchlings. Clearly, the situation is stickier than the doctor thought. As his behavior shifts from principled to unhinged, the crew stage a quiet mutiny to keep their mission on track.

ChrisAlright. So, we start off this episode, Matthew, with, I think, a pretty good classic Star Trek argument that Archer is making.

MatthewYeah. I mean, I think one of the things about this episode that does make it interesting is that the progression for Archer is one that is difficult for the crew to ascertain where he stands, because the argument is one that we could see somebody like a Picard making, right? Even somebody possibly like a Kirk making. We could see some of our greatest captains in Starfleet history making this type of argument that, if we take care of these Xindi insectoid babies, hatchlings, are we not proving to the Xindi that we are not the people that they think we are?

ChrisMm-hmm.

MatthewAnd again, I think that is an incredibly interesting question. And it's one that you would expect Star Trek to deal with. And so I guess the question then in that, Chris, becomes, is it executed in a way that brings that argument to kind of full fruition, right? Like that we actually really explore that argument. Or I guess on the other side, does the way in which the episode play out in some ways begin to undercut that? And I'm really interested to see what you think, because, yeah, the way the episode kind of begins and the questions that we ask, they feel very much like classic Star Trek.

ChrisYeah. Well, before you gave me the second question there, just the first one, I was just going to answer no, because it doesn't execute. It's not executed well. But it's very Star Trek. And I think that's where this episode … it's interesting that it starts out on such solid footing and like classic Star Trek footing.

And it also makes really good use of the whole concept of the Xindi. Because when you look at science fiction, you look at Star Trek as a vehicle for talking about humanity, talking about social issues, examining ourselves from afar, the Xindi are, it's like that idea turned up to 11, because we have every possible type of life form that we're accustomed to on Earth and how humans react to it all rolled up into one group that we're dealing with. We've got the primates, we've got the reptiles, we've got the insects. And the question being posed here, it hits at the nature of how humans look at the world, right? So we see the primate, if we see primate babies, we'll be drawn to them because they look a lot like us. We can identify with them easily. We probably have a natural instinct to care for them. Think about how we approach puppies or kittens or just about any baby mammal. We think they're cute. Even lions and tigers, things that we would be scared of when they're adults.

MatthewAnd bears, oh my.

ChrisAnd bears, right? When they're little, we think they're cute and we have a natural instinct to care for them, right?

MatthewYeah.

ChrisBut we're scared of snakes and reptiles. And a lot of people are scared of bugs and certain types of insects. And a lot of that's instinctual. You know, there's the idea that we're probably scared of snakes because when we lived in trees, snakes could climb the trees. And so we're kind of frightened of them on a like a subconscious level.

MatthewOr they're just deceiving you in a garden.

ChrisWell, yeah, and there's that too, of course. So the question makes a lot of sense. And I think that what, you know, Archer asks—or what he says—is true, that if they think that humans are ruthless, and we don't save these babies, we're just proving to them that we're ruthless. And, if we would save Xindi primate babies, but we won't save insectoid babies, what does that say about us?

And all of that is set up so well. And you think, okay, we're going to get like a really good Star Trek story here. But then Archer gets sprayed with goo. And then it just becomes a completely different story. And I think that, you know, it's a case where—and this happens sometimes in Enterprise—where the writers ask a big question and then they don't address the question. And then, you know, maybe at the end of an episode, doesn't happen here, but maybe at the end of an episode, they bring it up and they might hit on it right at the end, but the rest of the episode is just kind of this other thing.

MatthewWell, and I mean, I want to ask you too, do you even get the sense that if the Enterprise left, that the Xindi would have any clue that they were even there.

ChrisRight. Well, that's, yeah, yeah.

MatthewI mean, I think that's the other thing about this. There is an unanswered question about this episode, which is, and again, that never really gets discussed by anybody, are we really going to be in trouble with the Xindi if we just leave? Because we don't have the resources to be able to do this. And yes, it's terrible. It's awful. We hate it. But that's just the way it is.

ChrisYeah. Yeah. Yeah.

MatthewAnd again, we have to think about the greater mission that we're on.

ChrisRight, yeah.

MatthewWhich is a difficult look. It's one of the ethical quandaries that Enterprise is asking this entire season. Which is what are you going to do to save your species, right? And I think one of the key aspects to the episode that kind of lets you know immediately that Archer's not on the right track is that we have already seen Archer be willing to do some pretty morally gray things at this point. And so the fact that, all of a sudden, he's starting to ask these questions now with—on top of the fact that we see him get sprayed in the face by this insectoid goo—it's like it becomes very clear very quickly what's happening and where we're just waiting for the crew itself to catch up. And again, like I think what we're saying is that we don't actually have a discussion about the moral ramifications of this.

ChrisNo, we don't.

MatthewAnd I think it would have been a much more interesting episode if we didn't have Archer go crazy, if we actually had to have the arguments back and forth about what to do because can we just in good conscience leave children to die.

ChrisYeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let me jump to the very end, because you said it's very clear pretty quickly what's going on here. I love that at the end of the episode in sickbay, they summarize the entire story for the viewer. They literally just give you a summary. Phlox explains everything that we just watched. He's explaining it, and I'm like, yeah, that's what we just watched. Are we really going to take time at the end of the episode to do a summary of the episode just in case you missed it?

MatthewYeah I was there. I remember.

ChrisCan you imagine if at the end of every episode that, you know, that happens?

MatthewPeople weren't even on their cell phones at this point.

ChrisYeah, exactly. Yeah, well, so I like the question that Archer is asking from a philosophical standpoint. But from an in-universe story standpoint, it doesn't make sense to be asking this question, because the answer is it doesn't matter if we save these Xindi insectoid babies. The Xindi are not going to suddenly decide, you know what, maybe we don't need to destroy Earth. They're not going to do that. They're just going to … you know, they might say thanks, however you say—a couple of clicking noises or whatever you do as an insectoid—but really, the Xindi Council would probably never find out about it in the first place because the insectoids are not going to go back and say, "Hey, you know what? One of our hatcheries was failing and the humans rescued the babies, and so we want to cancel weapon development now."

MatthewSee, I will say … look, I think that that's one of the places, again, it would have been fascinating to see the episode play out where the crew, the senior officers have to have this argument. They end up helping them and they end up finding a way to delay a beacon. And this comes into play later on.

ChrisMm-hmm.

MatthewThat's a much more interesting episode so that you're left with the question, did they do the right thing? Does it matter? Did they even find the kids? We don't know because it's not shown in the episode. We just leave it with they set the beacon and they go on their merry way or on their way.

ChrisYeah. Well, yeah.

MatthewAnd I think that would have been an incredible thing to see play out with the crew, where it's like, no, we're going to be humans. We're going to, in the sense of we're going to be the best of humanity here. And we're going to do the thing that we know is the right thing to do.

ChrisMm-hmm.

MatthewAnd yet, this could go very wrong, and this could bite us in the butt. Or, maybe it's something that helps in the future. We don't know, but we still know the right thing to do is the right thing to do.

ChrisWell, the other thing that could bite you in the butt is one of those little insectoid babies.

MatthewProbably would be really really painful, honestly.

ChrisYeah. Probably. But they were actually quite cute. Didn't you think they were cute?

MatthewYeah, they did find a way to kind of make it look like A Bug's Life, you know. So much better looking than their older counterparts.

ChrisYeah. Yeah. So, well, what you're talking about there. It ties into another thing that I think about with this episode, that we have this space madness. We have Archer being affected by this alien goo. So it's an alien influence and he starts to act strangely. And of course, that derails the whole moral argument that we've been talking about, because once that goo starts to take hold and affect him, and he imprints on the babies, increasingly the decisions that he's making and the things that he proposes are no longer, you know, he's not clear-headed anymore. It's no longer Archer as the captain leading the mission who's making these decisions. So when he talks about, later on, when they fire on the insectoid ship and he's telling the crew, hey, you know, maybe they could have saved the babies, and the crew's warning him like, no, no, they're going to tell the other ships. We don't know how many Xindi ships are around, they're all going to come right after us and all.

And that ties back to, you asked earlier, if they had just left the ship alone would the Xindi have ever known in the first place? I suppose that maybe the Xindi could scan and they could detect that, oh yeah, the Earth ship passed by here or something? Why didn't they help the babies? But that's all hypothetical, right? And you could make it work in a story if you wanted to. But of course, they could have just left the ship there. But what you talk about with like leaving a buoy, and we don't know what happened after that. Yeah, that would be a much better way to fit this into the arc.

Or is it just a detour? Because the way it all plays out, I mean, it's part of the arc because we're dealing with the Xindi. And we do ask a question about how do we view the Xindi. But it doesn't really play an important role in getting us to the next step of finding the weapon and stopping the weapon.

MatthewMm-hmm. I think that is such a good point for this episode. It truly doesn't feel like it matters, in that sense. And it does just feel like we're filling a quota instead of telling a story that matters, especially at this point of the season.

ChrisMm-hmm.

MatthewI think that's kind of the frustrating part.

ChrisLike, this could have been 22 episodes like season 4, which Bakula wanted.

MatthewAbsolutely. Yeah, 100 percent.

ChrisThere are a couple of episodes in the season that feel like filler, right?

MatthewYeah. And this episode just doesn't need to be here in that sense. And again, I hate when you're listening to a podcast and you're like, oh, if I had been there, I would have rewritten it like this. But I truly do think that for this episode to matter, it needed to have some connection in the future.

ChrisMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

MatthewAnd because it doesn't in that sense, it's not an episode worth telling.

ChrisNow, there are a few character moments and character interactions here that might help the remaining episodes, like they might play into the story a little bit, but they're not so critical that you need this entire episode to be here to do it.

MatthewYeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm not taking away from that aspect, but you know …

ChrisNow, the concept of the episode, I don't have a problem with. I mean, the idea that, you know, I think the idea that you have this species that only lives for 12 years, and they have to constantly be regenerating on a space vessel, otherwise they wouldn't be able to really go anywhere long term, I think is really interesting.

MatthewYeah.

ChrisAnd then the fact that they have found a way, instead of repelling predators, they have found a way to take anyone who might be a predator and convert them into a caretaker for their eggs is a really interesting science fiction concept.

MatthewRight. Yeah, absolutely.

ChrisAnd even as a Star Trek episode, the idea that a crewmember could fall under this spell, it's also interesting. It's just, it's the kind of story that you would do as a standalone on The Original Series or on The Next Generation or even on Voyager. As part of this arc, it feels like we just kind of pulled over to the side of the road for a minute.

MatthewYes. I mean, again, I think that that's the thing where, if we were in TNG, The Original Series, all of this makes sense and it works, and you're right on board with it. Like, you just don't have a problem with this being there. I think it really just comes down to this season. This is not the season to be doing those types of stories, because we are telling these interconnected stories.

ChrisMm-hmm.

MatthewWe do want all of the stories to matter and to mean something, because that's how this type of television is done.

ChrisEspecially at this point in the arc, because you're ramping up towards the grand finale, right?

MatthewYup. 100 percent. Yeah.

ChrisBut tying into TOS and TNG, for example, do you feel like it takes the crew too long here to recognize that there's something weird going on with Archer? Because I feel like on TOS or TNG, if this happened to one of the crewmembers, I feel like the rest of the crew would realize more quickly. Okay, something weird is going on here. We've got to monitor what he's doing. That's a weird order. Don't follow that order. It feels like everyone's like tiptoeing for so long and almost willfully ignoring what's right in front of their eyes. Except T'Pol is more focused on like, we have a mission as the priority, right?

MatthewMm-hmm.

ChrisAnd then you've got Hayes, who I feel is acting kind of strange. Like, he's the head of the MACOs and their whole purpose is to make sure that this mission gets completed. And then he's basically just blindly following the orders of a captain who's giving him weird orders. And even to the end, he's willing to actually shoot the Starfleet crewmembers to follow those orders instead of actually listening and just watching what's going on. And I feel like someone who's had that training—and he even brings up West Point at the end, so we know West Point is still around in the 22nd century—that he would be trained to identify these signals that there's danger, that something unusual is going on.

MatthewYeah, I think what it comes down to is that this is a case of … I think, what they're going for is they want this to be a case study in blindly following orders and being somebody who's willing to not do that. And I think, you know, what we see with the MACOs is that they're willing to just kind of blindly follow orders because that's the chain of command and that's how it works. So whereas our Starfleet crew—and I do think that this, again, it could have just been more interestingly done anyway because the crew on the starship Enterprise has been out in space and faced these type of things a lot longer, right? And so they understand that weird stuff can happen to you, right? And therefore, you might start acting oddly and somebody needs to question it.

ChrisWeird is part of the job.

MatthewExactly. And that doesn't make you mutinous, really. That means that you're actually protecting everybody around you.

ChrisYou're not on Earth with humans.

MatthewYeah. And so, because the MACOs are new to this, they don't have that perspective and are just following commands. And I think that's the thing that actually is kind of interesting in the episode. But then again, it doesn't really come to fruition the way it should.

ChrisMm-hmm.

MatthewAnd I think it's funny because, we were speaking about "Learning Curve" with Voyager, and that's also an episode where I think things don't work out the way they wanted to in the storytelling in a way that really comes together.

MatthewAnd this is one of those places I think, for the most part, other than us seeing Trip move forward as a character who's truly willing to kind of put everything on the line and be like, if I got to go up against my captain to make sure that this mission is successful and that we don't kill everybody on board …

ChrisMm-hmm.

MatthewI mean, I think we see a real leadership quality in Trip in that sense, and I think we see that in T'Pol, right? Both of them truly understand what it means to be the second and third in command of this vessel.

ChrisOh, definitely. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

MatthewAnd I love that about the episode. I think that's probably the best part of the episode was the way in which we deal with those two characters in light of the way in which Archer is acting.

ChrisBut it took until the end for Trip, when he's standing there and then there are these little insect babies crawling all over Archer, and he's like, Dude, what are you doing? and then he's like, okay, this is enough. It's enough. And he shoots him.

But again, that's a moment in Enterprise that really works for the characters because they've spent so much time writing this series, building the relationship between Archer and Trip and showing us the past relationship that goes back long before the Enterprise itself. And so we know—even without him saying anything—what it must mean for Trip to be put in that position and have to actually shoot not just his captain, but his friend.

And T'Pol, I thought T'Pol was great in this episode, because when they finally go to her quarters she's like, okay, well, the priority has got to be, we've got to recover our antimatter. It's got to be a priority. She really takes charge. And I think it shows how comfortable she is in her role on the ship now, but also working together with the crew. And, you know, it's not new, we've seen it gradually happening, but again, if we're just thinking back throughout the series and how the series has evolved, you know, the character growth has been great for her, too. So that gave her something really good in this episode.

MatthewYeah, again, I think that you've got two places here and two characters that really get some justice in their character development. And at this point of this season, that's what you want. And so I think that, for me, this is one of those places where—as opposed to some other episodes in other series where you get to an episode like this and you just kind of feel like, oh man, was there anything worth watching in this—but this one I do think that there is some redeeming value to what we get in the episode, which is helpful. And you want that, right? You do want to not end up with "Profit and Lace," right? You don't want to end up in that kind of spot or a "Code of Honor" type of thing.

ChrisYeah. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

MatthewSo that's great that that's the case with this episode.

ChrisYeah. All right. Well, what are your final thoughts and what's your rating? I guess those are sort of final thoughts there.

MatthewYeah, it's obviously one of the weakest episodes of this season. I think I can say that without a shadow of a doubt. This is definitely one of the weakest episodes of the season, yet there is some redeeming value to it. So I'm going to give this two-and-a-half out of five cracked Xindi insectoid eggs.

ChrisI love when they crack and then the little Bug's Life baby falls down on your shoulder and starts whispering in your ear. Ask Archer what it said.

Matthew[singing] I think we're alone now there doesn't seem to be anyone around …

ChrisAlthough then you look around and there's actually like a hundred more babies with you.

MatthewYeah, it's terrifying!

ChrisBut anyway, yeah, my final thoughts are basically what we just talked about the end that even though I feel like this episode is a detour from the story arc really isn't necessary. It does have these good character moments in it. There's stuff you can pull out of it, so it's not just a complete throwaway. And that is something I feel like they do a good job of on Enterprise in general. And part of it is because of the nature of the show—especially this season where it's this narrative, you know, this serialized story—they're able to build on things enough from episode to episode that you don't have any where you just want to throw it out the airlock. And I also, like I said, I like the science fiction concept of the story. I just think it's misplaced here. That's the main thing. So I'm going to give this one two weird orders issued by Archer.

MatthewExcellent. Only two?

ChrisAlright, everyone. We would love to hear your thoughts on "Hatchery." If you'd like to share those with us, there are many ways for you to do that. Perhaps the best way is go to Facebook and join the Babel Conference. That is our listeners group. It's there to extend the conversations beyond the podcasts. So if you're joining for the first time, please do answer the questions and agree to the rules of the forum so that I can let you in. You'll find a post there on the timeline for this episode, and you can leave your thoughts for Matthew and me and fellow listeners right there.

You can also send us email. We have our new website online now. So the URL is tfm.fan. That's tfm.fan/contact and use the form you find there. Choose to send to a show and choose Warp Five and that will come to us by email.

And of course, you can find us in social media. Our username everywhere is trekfm. And if your podcast app of choice allows you to leave a rating and a review, we would love to get that from you as well.

Now, Matthew, when you're not playing nanny for bugs, where can people find you?

MatthewOh, man, it's such hard work, Chris. But you can find me all over social media under the name mattrushing02. You can also find me here on the network with The 602 Club talking about all of those franchises outside of Star Trek that we love. You can also find me over on The Nerd Party network with a couple of shows. One is called Owl Post, talking about every single chapter of the Harry Potter series one chapter at a time, as well as Aggressive Negotiations as John Mills and I talk about Star Wars each and every week.

But Chris, when you're not trying to get that Xindi Sassoon out of your hair, where can people find you?

ChrisYeah, I tried to wash it out, but it turned out to just be more goo. So that didn't help.

When I'm not doing that, you can find me elsewhere on the network doing all the shows with you, of course. Larry Nemecek and I are on The Ready Room, and you can find me in the back catalog in many episodes of many shows from the past 15 years, talking about a wide range of topics on broader Star Trek.

And, of course, you can find me in social media. My username everywhere is cbryanjones, the letter C and Bryan with a Y. Bluesky is where I'm most active, but you can find me everywhere, so please drop me a note. And if you would like to help us keep this rewatch and everything else we're doing on the network going, we could definitely use your help. To find out how to support the network, please visit patreon.com/trekfm. We would not be here without your support, so thank you to everyone who is supporting us now. Well, Matthew, I hope you're ready for next time. We're getting closer to that weapon as we finally arrive at Azati Prime.

MatthewI'm so glad we're finally there. Let's go.